Taoiseach has alibi for time of meeting - counsel

The Taoiseach, Mr Ahern, has an alibi for the claimed meeting with developer Mr Tom Gilmartin and other ministers in Leinster House, his lawyers have told the tribunal.

Mr Ahern was "elsewhere" at the time Mr Gilmartin claims the meeting took place in February 1989, according to Mr Conor Maguire SC, for the Taoiseach. The developer claims he was subjected to a £5 million extortion demand outside the meeting.

Mr Maguire yesterday accused Mr Gilmartin of changing his story when he learned that Mr Ahern would say he had an appointment at the time the developer specified for the meeting.

This appointment is recorded in Mr Ahern's diary.

"You were prepared to stick with your diary until you learned there was a difficulty with it," counsel said. He said Mr Gilmartin was trying to get some "wriggle-room" for his evidence by changing the date for the claimed meeting.

Mr Gilmartin's 1989 diary shows an entry for a "meeting with ministers" in Leinster House at 5.30 p.m. on February 1st. However, he said he used the diary as a notebook and this did not mean the meeting happened at that specific time and date.

He always believed the meeting took place "in or around" the start of the month, he told the tribunal.

Mr Gilmartin said he was "not trying to wriggle from anything". He knew Mr Ahern was present at the meeting; he had met the minister three times before this, he was on first-name terms and Mr Ahern had greeted him when he entered the room.

"Anyone who says that meeting never happened is lying." He continued: "What was wrong with that meeting that they feel it necessary to lie? It was only an introduction to the Taoiseach, nothing turned on it. Yet most of the government of this country are saying it never took place. Why? Why?" Mr Maguire said the "certainty" of the witness in relation to events had varied and his evidence was "unreliable".

Mr Gilmartin countered: "If you are trying some little nits for Mr Ahern to cover his ass, you can forget it". He denied having doctored or falsified his diary and suggested Mr Ahern had doctored his diary.

Mr Maguire said this was an "outrageous" suggestion.

Mr Maguire queried other aspects of Mr Gilmartin's account of the meeting. The witness had quoted the then Taoiseach, Mr Charles Haughey, as telling him that his son, Seán, was going to be lord mayor, he said.

The meeting allegedly took place in February 1989, but Mr Seán Haughey was not elected lord mayor until June 19th.

This conversation with the Taoiseach could not have happened, counsel said. Mr Seán Haughey had only decided to stand for mayor after being defeated in the general election in June that year. It was impossible that Mr Charles Haughey would have known in February that his son would become mayor.

"He must have been clairvoyant," Mr Gilmartin quipped, to laughter in the public gallery.

At this point, Judge Alan Mahon warned the public that he might have to exclude anyone who was laughing at the evidence. He urged the public to behave as they would in a court.

Mr Maguire accused the witness of "embellishing" his description of events by describing this discussion with Mr Charles Haughey. "It couldn't have taken place."

Judge Mahon pointed out that the position of lord mayor is often decided months in advance.

Mr Gilmartin said he had only met Mr Charles Haughey on one occasion, at the meeting in Leinster House. There were eight or nine witnesses to their conversation, although most were denying it had happened.

Counsel said Mr Gilmartin had also given contradictory accounts of his claimed meetings with former minister Mr Ray MacSharry. He had claimed that when he met Mr MacSharry in December 1987 the politician was more interested in going to Europe than in his issues.

However, this was 11 months before Mr MacSharry was appointed as Ireland's EU commissioner, Mr Maguire said. Mr MacSharry could not have known at this time that he would be appointed.

Counsel said the witness was adding a "colour piece" to an otherwise unsustainable allegation.

Mr Gilmartin repeated his evidence. It was an "absolute fact" that Mr MacSharry had told him he was going to Europe. "This place is a waste of life and I'm getting out of here," he had said.

Mr MacSharry denies ever meeting Mr Gilmartin.