Psychologist says use of loudhailer was insensitive

BARR TRIBUNAL: Use of a loudhailer during the Abbeylara siege would have "severely damaged" any chance of rapport developing between Mr John Carthy and the Garda negotiator, a forensic psychologist has told the Barr tribunal.

Dr Ian McKenzie, who has lectured British police forces in hostage negotiations, said the loudhailer was an "inappropriate" and "insensitive" method of communicating with the manic depressive 27-year-old.

The Garda negotiator, Det Sgt Michael Jackson, was clearly trying his best to develop a relationship with Mr Carthy and was trying to use his listening skills, Dr McKenzie said, but his efforts were thwarted by using the loudhailer.

"Any question of rapport developing was severely damaged by the use of the loudhailer."

The Garda did have more suitable equipment at its disposal, such as short-range telephones, which could have been thrown to Mr Carthy. They should have taken these to the scene at the outset, Dr McKenzie said.

The failure of the gardaí to accede in any way to requests made by Mr Carthy for cigarettes and a solicitor would have increased his frustration, he said.

Mr Carthy requested cigarettes before 4 a.m. on the second day of the siege. They were not brought to the scene until 10.30 a.m. and were never given to him.

Cigarettes should have arrived "sooner rather than later", Dr McKenzie said. However, only two or three should have been handed over initially. The remainder could then have been the subject of negotiation.

The request for a solicitor was the subject of "unwise" delay, he said, and ultimately a solicitor was never called to the scene.

"A solicitor should have been brought to the scene. A failure to respond to this request was likely to be excessively frustrating for John Carthy," Dr McKenzie said.

Mr Carthy's psychiatrist, Dr David Shanley, was not contacted by gardaí until the second day of the siege and was not brought to Abbeylara until an hour before Mr Carthy was shot dead by members of the Garda Emergency Response Unit.

"Dr Shanley's presence at the scene, or as a minimum and as a poor alternative, contact with him by a peer, would have been a valuable resource to provide relevant information to the commander and to the negotiators."

Dr Shanley should have been asked to attend as soon as his name became known, rather than the next day, he said.

In contrast there was "unseemly haste" in bringing friends and family, who did not have the benefit of professional training, to the scene.