THE Minister for Social Welfare, Mr De Rossa, denied in the High Court yesterday that he was being "less than frank" about preparations for a trip to Moscow in 1986.
Mr De Rossa told counsel for Independent Newspapers, Mr Patrick MacEntee SC, that he was not made aware of a letter from the Workers' Party seeking a meeting during the visit with the central committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (CPSU).
He said he was in Moscow purely as a tourist, first on his way to and later while returning from a nuclear disarmament conference in North Korea.
Mr MacEntee had referred Mr De Rossa to a letter from the Workers' Party general secretary, Mr Sean Garland, to the secretary of the central committee of the international department of the CPSU.
Asked if the arrangements in the letter had been discussed by, the ardchornhairle or the political committee, or any of the committees of the Workers' Party, Mr De Rossa said no.
Mr MacEntee: "Did you know that these arrangements had been made?"
Mr De Rossa: "No, I did not know."
Further asked if he had seen any reply to the letter, Mr De Rossa said no.
The only meetings he had in Moscow, as he had told the court on Wednesday, were with a publishing company, with a man about travel arrangements and with the editor of a magazine which had published an article about Northern Ireland "that we were taking issue with".
Counsel put it to Mr De Rossa that it would be an extraordinary political party where the general secretary would seek a meeting for himself and a Dail deputy, to discuss weighty matters, and would not tell the deputy about the letter.
Mr De Rossa replied that as Mr MacEntee knew, the Workers' Party had provided six or seven or eight thousand documents. A large number of letters would have been written to various parties, including the CPSU. "It would have been unreasonable and impossible for every single letter sent, out by the general secretary of the party, to be brought to my attention."
He added that one possible outcome was that Mr Garland had got a reply saying no such meeting was possible so the question of bringing it to his attention would not have arisen.
Mr MacEntee asked would Mr De Rossa not expect to have been told, as leader of the party, if the CPSU had written back refusing to meet a Workers' Party delegation? Mr De Rossa said he was not leader of the party at the time; Mr Garland was a more senior member of the party and would have been leader of the delegation.
He did not think Mr Garland had gone behind his back. "It appears to me to be a normal run-of-the-mill business letter between the general secretary of the Workers' Party and the general secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union seeking a meeting."
Mr MacEntee said the letter was a request for discussions at the highest level in the Soviet Union, the central committee of the CPSU. "That, Mr De Rossa, I'm suggesting is not a routine letter and I'm further suggesting to you that to try and tell his lordship band the jury that you consider it a routine letter is less than frank."
Mr De Rossa: "Mr MacEntee, I could take exception to you telling me I'm less than frank in this witness box. I'm under oath in this witness box. Unless you can prove I'm being less than frank, I would ask you to withdraw that."
After Mr Justice Moriarty said Mr MacEntee was getting into the sphere of comment, counsel asked if Mr De Rossa was still saying the letter was routine. The Minister, replied that taking advantage of a stopover in Moscow to seek a meeting with the CPSU seemed to him to be a reasonable thing to do.
Mr De Rossa said he spent between seven and 10 days in Moscow, depending on how you counted the time spent travelling.
Mr MacEntee then referred to the "Moscow letter" of September 15th, signed by Mr Garland and bearing Mr De Rossa's name. Did not that letter deal with possible areas of co-operation between the central committee of the CPSU and the Workers' Party? Mr De Rossa said it purported to do that.
Mr MacEntee said it suggested substantial co-operation, such as making available a very large sum of money. Mr De Rossa: "Like I say, it purports to do that."
Counsel asked did Mr De Rossa not agree that that was a possible area of co-operation. Mr De Rossa replied that if a meeting had taken place, as requested in August, it would hardly have been necessary to write a detailed letter. He presumed that if a meeting had taken place, the September letter would have referred to it.
Asked if anybody had called on Mr De Rossa on behalf of the central committee of the CPSU, he replied, no. There were no formal or informal meetings.,
Asked who was paying for their being in Moscow, Mr De Rossa said he would have understood it to be the WP.