ON CRIME, the Taoiseach said it tended to originate in areas of greatest deprivation and probably the most effective way of dealing with it was by giving people a sense of self worth, to feel they could take charge in their own areas. It also came back to education, said Mr Bruton.
He said a study undertaken in St Patrick's Institution showed 56 per cent of those surveyed had psychiatric problems of some kind and 92 per cent had an IQ which was below average.
"In other words, they had not got a break, they had not got a chance, they had not got the sort of support that they needed."
Calling for more investment, Mr Bruton said he was not so keen on the automatic cuts on spending being referred to.
There was a need for an increase in the number of remedial and resource teachers, who would visit the family home and talk to the mother and the father, find out why the homework was not being done and if something could be done to help.
As Tony Blair had said, that was tackling the cause of crime.
"We have to be tough with the causes of crime. We have to be very tough with the drug barons. We have taken their yachts off them and we have taken their houses off them and we are putting them out of business. The drug barons are being put out of business, the people who are preying on the poverty of people in these areas.
Mr Ahern said last year there were 100,000 indictable crimes and the State continued to have a serious crime level. Fianna Fail had highlighted this and put forward innovative legislation, researched the problem worldwide, and introduced its zero tolerance policy. His party had drawn up Bills which had been used as the source of Government legislation.
The State needed extra Gardai, bringing their numbers up to 1.200. He also acknowledged that the government would have to deal with deprivation, giving people some kind of education which was relevant to them.
Drug related crime and people getting into the drug cycle must be prevented through methadone centres and detoxification units. There must be rehabilitation and training. Mr Ahern said if this was not done, people would continue to be fearful in their homes, afraid to walk the streets. Every night people were locked behind closed doors.
When it was put to Mr Bruton and Mr Ahern that they were obsessed with prison spaces, Mr Ahern said there were habitual offenders who worked on the basis that they would never be caught. Even if they were, they would never get a sentence and if they were sent to prison, they would serve very little of their sentence.
"You have to break that cycle. The other end is to work away from a far younger age and in our policy on education we have been talking about pre school, about schemes in disadvantaged areas."
Mr Bruton said there were dangerous people who should be put in prison and remain there as long as was necessary. "We do need more places for those people. I would also say that when people who have money go to jail, it is wrong that the taxpayer should be paying Berkeley Court rates to keep people in a prison. When the people themselves who are there have money ... they should be giving some of it towards the cost of imprisonment."
Mr Bruton said it was a scandal that people who did not pay fines got away with it. The Government intended to introduce a system of getting their income at source.