Garda agrees medical records relevant

Barr Tribunal: The head of the Garda Emergency Response Unit told the Barr tribunal that medical reports on the history of John Carthy's mental illness should have been available to its negotiator, Det Insp Michael Jackson.

Information about the medical condition of a subject suffering from mental trauma, illness, or emotional distress would be critical to a negotiator dealing with a siege situation, said Det Supt Patrick Hogan yesterday.

The tribunal has already heard evidence that no senior officer at the siege sought the professional advice of Mr Carthy's GP, Dr Patrick Cullen, even though he had been present from the beginning of the armed stand-off.

Mr Carthy's psychiatrist, Dr David Shanley, did not arrive at the scene until the second day of the siege, shortly before Mr Carthy was shot dead. The 27-year-old was suffering from bi-polar, or "manic" depression at the time.

The tribunal chairman, Mr Justice Robert Barr, intervened during the evidence of Supt Hogan to ask if, in his view, the negotiator should have been supplied with a medical background from Mr Carthy's GP "or better still his psychiatrist".

Intelligence relevant to the ERU would include medical history, Supt Hogan said. The ERU was responsible for gathering "situational reports" of the "topography of the scene" and the history and background of the subject should come through a different source, he said. However, it was part of the negotiator's task to seek "whatever knowledge could be obtained".

Mr Diarmuid McGuinness, counsel for the Garda Commissioner, interrupted the chairman's questioning of Supt Hogan to submit that it was "outside the scope of the module" and the chairman was trying to "short circuit" the process. "It was not envisaged in this module to deal with anything other than established training and expertise."

Mr Justice Barr said he did not accept the submission because he did not want to call Supt Hogan back to the tribunal to address matters he could deal with now. "I am asking him to express his opinion. I propose to continue with that."

Later Supt Hogan told the tribunal there were no circumstances where ERU officers were trained to shoot at the limbs of a subject, but only at the "central mass" of the body. "Members are taught to neutralise the source of the threat. We teach that the best way to do that is to shoot at the central mass of the body." This was international best practice.

When asked by Mr Justice Barr if this practice did not carry a high risk of fatality, Supt Hogan replied: "What we are trying to achieve is not to kill the person but to neutralise the threat. If someone discharges their firearm it must be justified."