WHEN THE NUMBER of applicants exceeds third level places, there must be some system of allocating those places. In Ireland, the points system operates, whereby grades in Leaving Certificate subjects are each assigned a certain value. Students apply through a central applications body, and those with the highest points get the places. In certain courses, such as art and design, there is additional assessment of portfolio or projects.

Essentially, each year, the students set the points level for the courses themselves. The number of applicants and their calibre (as measured by the points) and the number of available places determines the cut off level for each course.

Points are not an indication of the quality of a course. In general the more places there are on a given course, the lower the points are likely to be, and vice versa.

The points system has been lauded as meritocratic, objective and transparent, not open to favouritism or subjective judgment. However, it has also been condemned for mismatching students with courses. Some blame it for skewing the education system, with non points subjects like physical education and religion coming under threat.

Critics argue that the points system encourages a mechanistic view of knowledge and that the development of grind schools is a consequence of the points race.

However, bear in mind that if there were sufficient college places available for all applicants, there would be no points system. Should we be looking for more third level places rather than an abolition of this means of regulating supply and demand?

In the run up to Christmas, when many students have started work on their CAO/CAS forms, we asked a selection of students, parents and teachers for their opinions.

Aileen Faherty, Leaving Cert student, Presentation Secondary School, Galway

IT'S UNFORTUNATE that everything is based on numbers and academic ability. There are any people who would be suited to courses on which they just can't get places.

I want to do medicine myself and the points are ridiculously high. If I don't do well in subjects - such as languages - which have nothing to do with medicine, I won't get a place. There is a lot of pressure. If I don't get what I want it will always affect me.

In our class, we are all aware of what points you get for the various grades and the points levels needed for the courses we want. It's coming at us from everywhere. At this stage, we have to decide whether to take various subjects at higher or ordinary level and the decision is based on the points we need.

If there was some other way of doing it, such as interviews, there wouldn't be so much pressure. It is true that the points system applies equally to everyone but, at the same time, I think it is unfair. Nick Killian, PRO for the National Parents' Council - PostPrimary (personal opinion):

THE FIRST THOUGHT that comes into my head is that the pressure on Leaving Cert students to get a high number of points is horrendous. On the other hand, it is a very fair system and it doesn't discriminate, in the sense that it is classless.

Last year, when our organisation met with representatives from various colleges, it seemed nobody could come up with a reasonable alternative.

From a parent's point of view, there are some parents who, because of the points system, put tremendous extra pressure on their children. Some parents use it as a measuring stick for the student. It think this is completely unfair, as students have whatever ability they have and they can only work to their maximum potential.

For certain professions - medicine and the caring professions in particular - there should be some sort of assessment or entrance test. This should test students' ability to get on with others. Not everyone is suited to becoming a doctor or psychiatrist. I think that an additional "test" would stop people wasting their time.

Overall, the way the numbers are, it's a highly pressurised system. All we can do within the schools is try to work with students so that they can cope with the stress. Early in school life, students should be trained to cope with the stress they will face over the two year Leaving Cert period.

Rose Malone, education and research officer with the TUI

THE POINTS SYSTEM has been described as brutally fair. It would be fair if it were a level playing pitch as far as getting to the Leaving Certificate is concerned.

The problem is - as shown in a number of surveys - that there are large differences regionally and socially as to who gets the points. The biggest drop outs within the system are in working class areas. One can't assume, therefore, that people who haven't got the high points are not as intelligent or as worthy or wouldn't benefit from a place in third level.

We can make too much of the assumption that it is a measure of intelligence. It is a measure of performance in a particular exam, and there are all kinds of obstacles to success in that exam.

My other concern is that it may have a distorting effect on the education system. Almost 50 per cent of students go to third level, but the points are irrelevant for the other 50 per cent. Teachers may be forced to skew their teaching to maximise performance for points and this is not in the interest of the other students.

The Leaving Certificate Applied Programme may not get as much prominence as it otherwise would - and parents are not encouraged to value it, as it does not lead directly to third level. There is an assumption that third level is the only measure of success. The further education and training sectors need to be built up.

Of course, points are not the only obstacle that many students face when it comes to third level. Maintenance grants are inadequate and, in the case of Post Leaving Certificate students, absent.

John Whites assistant general secretary of the ASTI

HOME PROCEDURE has to be put in place which allocates places in a fair, transparent and successful manner. It should also be mindful of matching abilities with courses.

It is generally reckoned that the points system is brutally fair and to the extent of it being fair and objective we would be supportive of it. However, we would suggest a detailed study and analysis of the system is needed and we would co operate fully to see if the points system accords with best international practice.

This review might set out the advantages and disadvantages of various systems and might endeavour to balance the fairness and justice of the various systems. If a system which can then assuage some of the harsher elements of the current one can be devised, then a service will have been performed both for the pupils and teachers in second level schools and for society in general.

Sean Carabini, Leaving Cert student, Lucan Community College, Co Dublin

I DON'T THINK the current points system is fair. I don't think the examination system is fair and I don't think the education system as a whole is fair.

There are huge changes that need to be made. A lot of people can't relate to the subjects and the points system is no good for them. Some people can't do exams and some people can - in the same way some people can run the marathon and others can't. Exams do not show people as they really are.

We need to change the exams system radically. I would suggest far fewer written exams and far more aural and oral content in all exams, not just the languages. There should also be a large amount of project work. For instance, in history you get to do a special topic. You should be allowed to submit this topic in some form rather than having to write it down in the exam. Examiners should be brought into the schools to talk to the students about the subjects.

I think 40 per cent of the marks in the Leaving Certificate should be for the project, 40 per cent for aural or oral and only 20 per cent for the written exam. If exams were reshaped in this way, the points system would be fine.

Dr Sean McDonagh, head of the council of directors of RTCs:

EVERYONE KNOW at the press system is open, public and fair and that everybody is treated the same regardless of home background. It actually rewards what students have been studying at school.

It is much more favourable than interviews, which are impossible to run for a large number of people. It is also difficult to establish objective criteria for interviews. Another possibility would be references, but, in Ireland, it's impossible to run. How could a school give a poor reference to one of their own?

People who complain about the points system really should be complaining about what is done in schools. If they feel teamwork, sporting ability, etc, should be measured and written into the assessment, that's where it needs to be done. Don't blame the points system. Blame the exam system. Let us keep the openness and fairness.

Colleges are very open to admitting non standard and mature applicants. If you go don't get the points or opt to work first you can come back. It's not a once and for all business.

The structure in the RTCs where people can progress up the ladder from certificate to diploma to degree to postgraduate study means that people who perform better than their Leaving Cert results are not excluded from these courses. There are doors still open. There is a ladder and there is nothing to stop them going the whole way.

Aine Hyland, professor of education, University College Cork

BY GENERAL OPINION is that while the points system is not an ideal one, devising a better system is not easy. I was admissions officer in Carysfort College for eight years and we had an interview, oral Irish and music tests as well as the weighting given to Leaving Cert subjects. Following students through from admission to teaching practice to their performance as teachers a few years later, we found that there was not a high correlation between their performance at interview and their subsequent performance as teachers.

People who were never involved with interviews tend to feel that they are the solution; however, people like myself who were deeply involved with interviews eventually had to come to the conclusion that they were not sufficiently relevant to justify the time being spent.

Also, in the late 1980s there was a whole industry preparing people for interviews for admission to college. It was simply adding another advantage to those who were already advantaged.

We're all hoping that as the supply and demand situation changes at the end of this decade there will not be so much pressure and we might look at a system similar to UCAS in Britain. Maybe some form of interview could also be introduced - recognising its limitations. Brendan Goldsmith, president,

Dublin Institute of Technology

IT'S EASY TO BE CRITICAL of the points system, but to devise a workable alternative seem to be rather difficult. The present system, in one limited sense, is totally fair and readily seen to be fair. That's pretty important in the climate that we are in.

The big problem in our experience it that it doesn't necessarily match the correct students to the correct courses. In the past, this was dealt with by interviews. This is no longer feasible, not least because of the numbers involved.

It is also fraught with dangers - very few people would maintain that interviews are totally objective and fair. On the positive side, some of the new psychological profile tests or aptitude tests could be useful in conjunction with the points system.

As a parent, I am worried about the pressure on students with a moving target, as last year's points have a nasty habit of going up.

There's also a big question around non standard applicants (not mature students), particularly students from disadvantaged areas, and whether the rules should be bent. Positive discrimination such as this might not be legal. The other option would be to reserve ex quota places, but the reality is we do not have the resources to do this at present.

Sinead O'Gorman, Transition Year student in Mercy College, Beaumont, Dublin

A FRIEND OF MINE worked very hard at her maths for the Leaving Cert but, on the day, she panicked. She didn't get the results she had hoped for or worked for. She had to repeat the year, even though she is very good at maths.

Second time round, she got an A in maths, but she was put back a year. Now she is studying maths and economics at college, but she should have been finished a year ago.

I think the points system should be changed so that it's not just one chance in one year. Maybe you could sit the exams once again after you get your results.

Another thing that's wrong with the points system is the fact that you mightn't be suitable for the job. Take medicine: someone who gets five As but mightn't have the skills to talk to people could get a place; someone without as many points but with the talent may not get a place. Maybe there should be an interview or a situation like you might have to face on the wards as well as points.

I'm hoping to work in childcare and I plan to do work experience in a Montessori school. It would be unfair if I put in the effort and someone else with more points, but no experience, got the place instead.