Lisa Smith denied being obsessed with jihad during interviews with gardaí

Lisa Smith, a former Irish soldier who denies membership of Islamic State, told gardaí that she was not obsessed with jihad and described a prosecution witness as “dangerous” and a “selfish jihadi”.

During an interview in December 2019, Ms Smith said that Carol Karimah Duffy, a witness for the prosecution, taught her things about Islam that were not true and had “messed” with her mind.

She said Ms Duffy told her about Osama bin Laden and Sharia law and talked about Islam being “spread by the sword”. Ms Smith also told gardaí that if she had extremist views in the past, she does not have them now, and that another prosecution witness, Tania Joya, was a “liar”.

The 39-year-old accused, from Dundalk, Co Louth, has pleaded not guilty to membership of an unlawful terrorist group, Islamic State, between October 28th, 2015 and December 1st, 2019. She has also pleaded not guilty to financing terrorism by sending €800 in assistance, via a Western Union money transfer, to a named man on May 6th, 2015.

Det Garda Ciaran McGeough told prosecution counsel Seán Gillane SC that he interviewed Ms Smith over several days at Kevin Street Garda station following her arrest on December 1st, 2019.

‘Selfish jihadi’

During the sixth interview gardaí read to Ms Smith a statement made by Ms Duffy a week earlier. Ms Smith said Ms Duffy was “dangerous” and a “selfish jihadi” who had told her that everything in Islam is “haram” or forbidden.

“She made me hate Islam at the beginning and I wanted to leave but I couldn’t because I love god,” she said.

When Ms Smith met an American convert to Islam named John Georgelas, aka Abu Hassan, she said she learned the opposite of what Ms Duffy had taught her. She said Ms Duffy encouraged her to leave her job in the Army, claiming nationalism was forbidden. She denied that she has extremist views.

“Having seen the extremism of the Islamic State I am not extremist any more. I’m the opposite, but she is extreme,” she said.

Ms Smith said extremists are people who say it is forbidden to listen to music or speak with men. Other cut off people’s heads, say they have to kill everyone who does not agree with them and do not allow their wives to go outside or to own a telephone, she added.

“I just want to go away and relax and stop talking with people. I just want to be left alone to pray and worship my god and be with my child.”

Martyr

When Ms Joya’s statement was read out, Ms Smith denied being a jihadist. She also denied Ms Joya’s claim that she wanted to become a martyr when she first went to Syria in 2013 with Ms Joya and her husband Mr Georgelas.

She said her leg was injured at the time and she would have been unable to fight and asked why, if she wanted to die a martyr, did she leave three months later with her husband.

She said of Ms Joya: “She is a liar, she lied about many things.”

Gardaí also asked Ms Smith about €18,000 she lodged into one of her bank accounts in February 2015. She said she had received compensation of €25,000 following a 2005 car crash.

She said a series of withdrawals of €1,000 up to September 18th, 2015 were used to paid for improvements to her family home and her flight to Turkey. She brought €8,000 with her, but €7,000 was taken from her when she arrived in Syria. She said nobody told her to bring money.

The trial continues at the non-jury court.