The reaction of Mr John Carthy in a telephone call from his house to the chief Garda negotiator on the second day of the Abbeylara siege was: "You'll never break me," the Barr tribunal was told yesterday.
Det Insp Michael Jackson, the chief Garda negotiator attached to the Emergency Response Unit (ERU), had arrived at the scene the previous night and had been talking to Mr Carthy on April 20th, 2000.
In the late afternoon of that day Mr Carthy left the house with his gun and was shot dead. The tribunal is investigating the circumstances of the shooting.
Yesterday Mr Michael O'Higgins SC, for the Carthy family, continued his cross-examination of Insp Jackson. He said all Mr Carthy had requested during the siege was a packet of cigarettes and a lawyer.
"We know his reaction was: 'You'll never break me'. Was that not an appalling indictment of your negotiations?" Mr O'Higgins asked.
Insp Jackson said the remark had been made after a degree of engagement when he had told Mr Carthy that his family and friends were worried about him and wanted to help him.
"There was a degree of engagement, and after that a stream of dialogue and then he appeared to stop engaging and said the words," Insp Jackson said.
Mr O'Higgins asked if it was not in the context of the inspector's refusal to give Mr Carthy what he was looking for. He suggested Mr Carthy did not believe what the inspector was saying. He was stalling for time, and Mr Carthy saw through that.
Insp Jackson said he would not accept that. He told Mr Carthy that if he was not happy with the delivery instructions for the cigarettes, then he could say how he thought gardaí could deliver them.
Mr O'Higgins said Mr Carthy was exercising his right not to go along with the preconditions, and the inspector was punishing him.
Insp Jackson said that was not correct.
Mr O'Higgins said Mr Carthy did not like authority figures and had said the inspector was trying to break him.
Insp Jackson said: "It was in the context of what I was saying to him and how concerned everybody was for him, and he did seem to be contemplating his position and in that context he said 'You're trying to break me'."
Asked if, in the light of that, was there not room for a bit of softer manoeuvre, Insp Jackson said: "I don't believe there could be a more soft approach. Within the confines of what was going on, it was a soft, non-threatening approach."
Mr O'Higgins said: "I put it to you that your tactic not just didn't work but aggravated the situation."
Insp Jackson said there were other dynamics at the scene.
Mr O'Higgins asked him about the moment Mr Carthy came out of the house with his shotgun at 5.30 p.m. on April 20th.
Insp Jackson said Mr Carthy's gun was pointed towards the command post.
The hearing was adjourned until Tuesday.