"Who the hell knows what the public are going for?"

"WHO knows what the public are going to go for." Gay Byrne was quoting Hollywood screenwriter Willam Goldman, in response to a question about the sort of format which might succeed in drawing a younger listenership to Radio 1.

"It looks like we are going to try something different. We'll see how it works," he said. He recalled that he had been criticised four or five years ago for saying there was too much talk on Radio I. "From 7.30 a.m. to 2.45 p.m. it's all talk." It now seemed people at RTE were coming around to that view.

He spoke of the greater spread of audience now with 26 new stations and the advent of Radio Ireland. The latter, he felt, probably presented "the biggest problem for RTE". He believes Radio Ireland will face "a ferocious uphill battle" and that its biggest difficulty will be staying in business long enough to hold on.

But he believes much of the criticism of Radio 1 is "a bit unfair". Its listenership losses were from "fantastically high figures", whereas growth for the other stations came from a very low base. And when these other stations wanted to target Radio 1, they did so with talk radio, despite being critical of it for having too much talk.

By doing this they had done the opposite of what people had said they wanted in surveys. "People never do what they say they will in surveys, anyway, Mr Byrne said. And still the top six radio shows most listened to in the country were on Radio 1. These are Morning Ireland - including the 8 and 9 a.m. bulletins - The Gay Byrne Show, News at One, The Gerry Ryan Show, Liveline and The Pat Kenny Show, in that order.

He agreed his proposed swap with Pat Kenny was "in a way a voluntary handing over of the baton". But he did not know what would happen where Joe Duffy was concerned. He thought it was "more likely Joe will be reporting for The Pat Kenny Show".

He appreciated "hugely" Mr Duffy's contribution his show. "A great adjunct to the programme," was how he described him. For years they had been anxious to get the programme out of the studio and had tried out many people, "but as soon as Joe came along I knew he was the one to do it".

Through him they had managed to get out and about, which he did "extremely well". It had been said to Mr Byrne by some that Mr Duffy's strong Dublin accent was not appreciated by listeners down the country. It is not a view he shares.

THE proposed schedule change for the autumn has not been discussed with Pat Kenny at all. All he knows is that he will "have a prominent place in the schedule" then, following a recent assurance from the Director of Programming, Mr Kevin Healy. In that context Mr Kenny did not wish to comment until the changes were confirmed.

Joe Duffy has no idea what is to become of him, as no one has spoken to him so far. It seemed everything was up in the air, then all settled, and Joe was missing in action in Aran actually," he said. He had been doing an outside broadcast from Inishmaan this week. He is on a yearly contract which expires in December.

"Why are they dumping me?" he asked. "They cannot fault my figures, or my work rate. I've had a big input when it comes to ideas. They cannot say I'm incompetent, and I have never been caught out saying something stupid on air. I want to know why. The staff are asking me why" he said.

His accent "is not a Dublin accent, it is a Dublin working class accent", he said. Yet no one had ever phoned in to complain and never, in 7 1/2 years on The Gay Byrne Show, travelling the length and breadth of the country, never once have I been pulled up, challenged, sneered at or jeered at because of my accent. It doesn't feature."

He can see no reason to change the existing Gay Byrne Show format. "Why change a winning formula?" he asked. "It is a very particular, almost unique brand." The show is "the best thing going for the station". He can see "nothing wrong" with it, pointing out that young people like "good radio, not just music," and he felt no shame that 90 per cent of the over 555 listened to the programme.

HE was critical of the lack of promotion of Radio 1 as a station, compared, for instance, to the promotion of 2FM. Radio 1 didn't have a logo until a year ago, and it had no head, unlike all the other RTE stations. While Mr Healy oversees Radio I, he also has responsibility for 2FM, FM3 and Radio na Gaeltachta, each of which has its own head. "There's no one to bat for Radio 1," Mr Duffy said.

But what upset him most was to hear Gay Byrne saying he was tired and would do whatever RTE wanted him to do. Joe Duffy's reaction was one of disbelief, "that a man of his stature and calibre, a man who had challenged the RTE Authority itself on the abortion issue and who has taken on politicians every day of the week, was now tired.

"What I loved about Gay was his passion and energy, his instincts, his concern for the underdog." The "you wouldn't ever go up there and see if Brendan Smyth will talk to you" audacity of the man. "There will never be anybody as big [in broadcasting] as Gaybo again. For infinity. For all sorts of reasons.

He is "upset for Gay, upset he feels that way. I am sorry that he does feel tired. There was such fight in him. I still worship the water he walks on."

No, he is not upset at Gay. Why should he be? "Gay has his own pressures and concerns. He is not my boss, Kevin Healy is. He is not my employer, RTE is."

But Joe Duffy is not tired, and he has no problem getting up at 6 a.m. "It is not the presenters who are tired" at RTE, he said, "it is the items they do. The presenters should not be scapegoated".

The Gay Byrne Show will continue until Friday week, June 28th, by coincidence the same day the RTE Authority will decide whether to implement the proposed new schedule. The programme will be presented by Joe Duffy each day until then, as Gay Byrne finished last Friday. He will, however, return for the final programme.