Stephen Donnelly and Simon Harris get a breakfast grilling on Morning Ireland

If you’re explaining, you’re losing, according to the old political adage. That being so, those pushing plans for the new National Maternity Hospital might start sourcing a white flag, at least if radio coverage of the matter is anything to go by. Following the Government’s decision to delay a decision on moving the hospital to the St Vincent’s campus in Dublin, health ministers past and present appear on Morning Ireland (RTÉ Radio 1, weekdays) in support of the proposal. But as they insist the new facility will be free of religious influence, cabinet colleagues Stephen Donnelly and Simon Harris leave a less-than-convincing impression despite – or because of – their detailed explanations.

The minister responds with a potted history of the hospital saga – which by now seems as ancient as any Viking epic

As incumbent health minister, Donnelly is first up, telling anchor Gavin Jennings the new hospital will be “fully independent”. Though the state is only leasing the site, which the Sisters of Charity declined to gift to the State, Donnelly says that legal agreements ensure “multiple layers of protection”. Jennings wonders why such complicated arrangements are needed: “Why can’t we own a hospital that we’re paying for?”

The minister responds with a potted history of the hospital saga – which by now seems as ancient as any Viking epic – before concluding: “What we have now is a legal structure between two voluntary hospitals and the State, via the HSE, to create a world-class healthcare campus.” Back of the net!

Jennings, however, is unmoved. “I’m still not clear, why can’t it be a publicly owned hospital on public lands?” Donnelly’s answer that the ownership issue is a “red herring” sounds evasive, but he’s unambiguous when asked if he’ll guarantee clinical services such as abortion on the new site: “One hundred per cent.”

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The matter arises again when Harris appears in his role as Minister for Higher Education to discuss plans for reforming third level funding. Interviewed by Mary Wilson, the minister is ingratiatingly Micawberish on this issue, laying out proposals high on aspiration, if lower on concrete figures: “I expect I’ll receive another pot of money,” he says. But when Wilson asks the former health minister if he has concerns on the hospital issue, Harris laces his ostensibly positive answer with ambivalent phrases such as, “This is about it getting it right.” Like Donnelly, he makes a compelling clinical case for the new facility, but the continuing doubts about ownership mean the political optics are blurred.

It’s a good day for Morning Ireland, however. Jennings and Wilson approach their encounters with forensic rigour, putting their ministerial guests on the back foot – Harris sounds thrown when Wilson asks about “gendered objection” in the cabinet to the hospital plans. The hosts keep their cool, but their handling of domestic politics injects the heavily formatted flagship show with an urgency that can otherwise go AWOL. At least someone is winning.

Robust

The hospital story also receives reliably robust attention on Drivetime (RTÉ Radio 1, weekdays). It's surely coincidental that the Cabinet pauses approval of the St Vincent's move shortly after Cormac Ó hEadhra hears Prof Peter Boylan calmly eviscerate the plans on Tuesday's show, but his assessment of potential clerical interference is so excoriating that the delay somehow seems inevitable.

Ó hEadhra and co-presenter Sarah McInerney continue their coverage on Wednesday, with Fianna Fáil TD Jim O’Callaghan giving his backing to the hospital plans, albeit in decidedly lukewarm terms: “It’s not the best option, but it’s the strongest one available at the moment.” (This resembles the sort of political Hobson’s choice warily described by sceptical Green Party TD Neasa Hourigan on Radio 1’s Claire Byrne Show earlier in the day.)

But opposition parties maybe aren’t as resolute in their resistance as their rhetoric suggests, as the hosts discover. Sinn Féin health spokesman David Cullinane decries the “convoluted” process, but under wily quizzing by McInerney – “If Sinn Féin is satisfied that those [legal] assurances can be upheld, would you be happy to support this project going ahead as planned?” – it appears that the party’s bullishly stated preference for a facility on State lands isn’t absolute. “We will come to an informed view,” Cullinane says, giving his party a handy off-ramp.

Such equal-opportunities grilling underline Drivetime’s status as the most hostile environment for waffling politicians on Radio 1. Other RTÉ presenters ask awkward questions, as Jennings and Wilson prove on Morning Ireland, but none call out BS with the same scornful alacrity as the Drivetime duo. When Minister of State Niall Collins appears on the show to discuss the third-level funding proposals, Ó hEadhra is dubious about a lack of detail, saying his guest can’t even quantify any reduction in university registration fees. “We have to live in the here and now,” Collins replies feebly. “I don’t know what that means,” comes the host’s dismissive retort.

It’s not all firing-line stuff. There are more considered items, such as Tuesday’s discussion with Dr Ursula Bates on the tricky question of how much one can grieve without it becoming a problem. Plus there’s the usual spirited exchanges between the presenters, which imbue the programme with a lightness not usually associated with current affairs slots.

Ó hEadhra admits, not without pride, that he hasn't seen any of the films. McInerney is incredulous. 'How can you get to middle age without seeing Star Wars?'

With last Wednesday now known to many as Star Wars day (“May the fourth be with you”), the pair talk to journalist Gareth Morgan, who watched every movie in the blockbuster sci-fi franchise in one sitting with his son. Such devotion is baffling to Ó hEadhra, who admits, not without pride, that he hasn’t seen any of the films. McInerney is incredulous. “How can you get to middle age without seeing Star Wars?” she splutters.

It turns out that Ó hEadhra isn’t alone, however. “Who knew we would have a plethora of Star Wars deniers?” asks McInerney, as she reads texts from listeners proclaiming they’ve never seen the movies, and can’t stand them. McInerney, alert as ever, pounces on this: “How do you know you can’t stand them if you haven’t seen them?” Try explaining that.

Radio Moment of the Week

Incongruity is the order of the day on the Ray D’Arcy Show (RTÉ Radio 1) when the host talks to “iconic memorabilia” auctioneer Martin Nolan, who has brought Kurt Cobain’s Fender Mustang guitar into the studio. Nolan switches between anecdotes about the late Nirvana frontman’s mother to discussing the eye-watering prices paid for his guitars: it’s a world away from Cobain’s disaffected nonconformity. Bizarrely, the conversation then turns to the Marilyn Monroe dress recently worn by Nolan’s “friend and client” Kim Kardashian: a less grungy figure is hard to imagine. But if the concept of Kurt Cobain and the Kardashians seems wrong, Kildare singer Jack L sets things right by playing Nirvana’s Smells Like Teen Spirit on the storied guitar. It sounds terrific. Better to nevermind than get annoyed.