Matt Cooper: I ask questions but I’m also a little sceptical about what I’m told

What’s the central thesis and key takeaway of your new book, Who Really Owns Ireland?

It’s about how the ownership of land, property and assets that we regard as of being of national, or collective, interest has changed since the crash of 2008 to 2010. How, as the economy recovered, those with money took advantage, most of which is international capital, although there are some rich Irish people in there as well. What they do with it all is relevant to how we live, work, play and socialise.

Why have Irish governments struggled so badly with housing crises and property booms and busts?

They’re not alone in that, it happens in countries everywhere and nobody has handled it well in the 21st century. At first, after the crash, it was a lack of money. After that, it may have been fear of making more mistakes, then it became a lack of ambition and understanding of the new circumstances unfolding, then a degree of panic as the population increased far faster than anyone anticipated. But don’t blame it all on the government (or indeed the developers, builders and banks): an extraordinary degree of selfishness, allowed by the planning system, has allowed people to block what would be in the common good.

Is capitalism out of control?

There are certain controls imposed upon it by law and government but international capital has enormous power and this books highlights the compromises our governments have made with it over the last decade, often born out of pragmatism. That said, the State depends for much of its revenue on the taxes it raises from this source and while some would argue we should take more the mobility of that capital doesn’t always make higher revenue an inevitable outcome of higher impositions. The State simply doesn’t have enough money for what we need for the future, or spend it wisely enough, which is why I focus on things like nursing homes, forestry and off-shore wind exploration.

What are your solutions?

I’m laughing at the idea that I have solutions, because I’m a journalist and broadcaster who asks questions rather than providing answers. That said, people who feature in the book like John Moran and Eddie O’Connor have really interesting ideas for a better future for Ireland. Moran, as former chair of the Land Development Agency, wants a far more ambitious programme of public housing and redevelopment of our cities. O’Connor is a visionary for sourcing new forms of electric power and has ideas that could make our seas more valuable than anything that would have been extracted from an oil find.

Your first two books also had really in the title: Who Really Runs Ireland? (2009) and How Ireland Really Went Bust (2011). What’s the appeal?

Of the word really? I’m a journalist and that means I’m curious about what goes around me, I ask questions about it but that I’m also a little sceptical about what I’m told. There’s a lot of received wisdom, of a shorthand kind, about the things that go on in this country and the people responsible. I try to get the information in front of readers in as an accessible way as possible to help them make up their own minds as to what is really going on.

[ Ellen Ryan: ‘I want this book to be empowering for boys. We can’t leave them out’ ]

You also wrote The Maximalist: The Rise & Fall of Tony O’Reilly. Sell it to me.

Succession. The Irish version. And I did it before the TV series came along.

You narrated the documentary Dennis Rodman’s Big Bang in Pyongyang after travelling with the basketballer to North Korea in 2014. Is that the wildest story you’ve told?

Yes. Even recently when a group aged from 20 to 60 at a house party peppered me with questions about North Korea, Rodman and what the hell I was thinking going there with him. And they all got on their phones checking where they could download the documentary, which is on Apple TV+ by the way.

You’ve worked in print, radio and TV journalism? How would you assess the reach of each?

Different ways of reaching the same or different people, but equally as important.

Which projects are you working on?

A new political podcast with Ivan Yates we hope to launch in either December or January.

Have you ever made a literary pilgrimage?

Not as such, but when I was in Monterrey in California in the 1990s I made a point of looking out for as many John Steinbeck Cannery Row places as possible.

What is the best writing advice you have heard?

Keep it simple.

Who do you admire the most?

As a writer, I’d love to write biographies as well as Walter Isaacson (Steve Jobs and Elon Musk biographer) does.

[ Some People Need Killing and A Death in Malta: journalists shine a light on human rights abuses ]

Which current book, film and podcast would you recommend?

LIV and Let Die is a terrific insight into how Saudi power and money is changing sport, golf in this case. Oppenheimer is visually stunning and intellectually gripping. I’ll recommend my own Magnified podcast series of interviews if you’ll let me away with that.

Which public event affected you most?

The murder of my great friend Veronica Guerin in 1996.

The most remarkable place you have visited?

Pyongyang.

Your most treasured possession?

My golf clubs.

What is the most beautiful book that you own?

How do you define that? One that has been read but doesn’t have the corners of the pages turned down.

Which writers, living or dead, would you invite to your dream dinner party?

Jennifer Egan. Gabriel García Marquez. EL Doctorow. JR Moehringer. JK Rowling.

The best and worst things about where you live?

The people. The people.

What is your favourite quotation?

It has suited me to use this on occasion when writing about business and power. Ernest Hemingway from the novel, The Sun Also Rises. One character asks “how did you go bankrupt?”, the other replies: “two ways. Gradually, then suddenly.”

Who is your favourite fictional character?

Logan Roy from Succession. I know a few who resemble him. Might even write books about them in the future.

A book to make me laugh?

It’s been years since I’ve read any Kurt Vonnegut but this question has prompted me to go and dig some of his novels out because I know they used to make me laugh a lot. Now take a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut. (Bet you don’t leave that it in).

A book that might move me to tears?

Whatever beats me at the forthcoming An Post Irish Book Awards.

Who Really Owns Ireland? by Matt Cooper is published by Gill Books