THE Taoiseach denied a claim by Mr Ahern that the Rainbow Coalition has failed to control public expenditure.
Mr Bruton said the Government had borrowed only £17 million this year, compared to £630 million last year. Public spending was now proportionately lower in Ireland than in Britain, Germany and Spain.
Mr Ahern said that if the increase in public expenditure was limited to 4 per cent for the next five years there would be £1.8 billion available for tax reductions. Both the OECD and ESRI had stated that public spending had to be kept at that rate.
Fianna Fail in government had actually cut public spending in real terms between 1987 and 1989. Later it had to allow some increase to pay for wage rises and other things, he said.
Mr Bruton said it was the Government's spending policies which were giving us the lowest interest rates ever - and a high level of job creation. "We're managing the public finances well but we're managing them in a fair way, that's why people are getting the benefits."
Mr Ahern said public expenditure was increasing at three times the rate of inflation. The OECD had said recently that if we did not get that right we would have difficulties meeting the Maastricht criteria. The left wing parties in the Government wanted to spend and did not want to control the public finances.
He had said the increase in spending would be kept to 4 per cent. What was the Government's figure?
Mr Bruton replied that we had no budget deficit at the moment. He believed if we had money we should spend it, on improving the health services for example. It was wrong that we had waiting lists in hospitals, that we had schools in bad condition, that people were being released early from prison.
"Putting those things right requires money and I make no apology for spending that money," he said.
Mr Ahern said a 4 per cent increase for the next five years would give the Government of the day an extra £3 billion to spend. Surely that was enough.
Mr Bruton said that when the Government took office it inherited the Programme for Competitiveness and Work (PCW) which had left over a number of items to the end. The Government was spending more this year on things that should have been done long ago, like giving nurses a decent level of pay.
He complimented Fianna Fail for the fact that it was a Fianna Fail minister, Donough O'Malley, who in 1966 had abolished second level education fees. The Government had now taken that one step further by abolishing third level fees. "But that costs money. I think that's good value for money."
Mr Ahern: "Then why did you in the Partnership 2000 set down that public expenditure will only increase by 2 per cent if you didn't believe it?" The Taoiseach had said this in January but he did not believe it now, said Mr Ahern. A 4 per cent increase would give £3 billion. Surely that was enough to deal with the problems.
The Taoiseach had said we had no deficit, but the State was actually £32 million in debt. Mr Bruton: "Is there any country in Europe that doesn't owe money?"
Mr Ahern said we had to make sure when things were good that we were in a position to deal with bad times.
Mr Bruton said you would not have good times unless you were prepared to invest. The really important investment was in education and training. "I'm proud we're investing in that." Putting money into training created wealth in the long term. "If you take a bookkeeping approach and cut back and cut back it won't work," he added.