Des O'Neill and Bertie Ahern:
Des O'Neill:Can I put the following scenario to you, Mr Ahern, since you invite it. On the 14th of December you go to the bank with the intention of borrowing money from them. The bank indicates that they're willing to lend you the money but on terms. Those terms being that there will be a back-to-back arrangement whereby you will put in a deposit which represents the same amount as the money which is going to be lent to you and also the interest that would accrue on that sum over the next 18 months.
At then rates of interest being approximately £22,000. That they are prepared to give you a loan facility on that basis and that that happens on the 14th. You do not have that money on the 14th but you set about acquiring that money between the 14th and the 23rd. On the 23rd you return with the money, £15,000 in cash. A draft dated the 22nd of December, drawn upon the bank in Montrose, a cheque dated the 22nd of December written by Willdover, so that you now have £15,000 in cash and a total of £22,000.
. . . the process of setting up the loan account, Special Savings Account, is progressed and the loan is also progress[ ed]. It goes in the first instance into the suspense account, computer suspense account. It is dealt with then through the banking system. The result of it is that by the 30th all of the components of the loan and the deposit have been completed. On the loan side, the account which was to be cleared by the £1,302 is cleared off on the 30th. The drafts have been debited to the account on the 23rd and the 24th. And the SSA account is opened as and from the 30th. Now, that is another scenario that is open on the documentation?
Bertie Ahern:It is unbelievable, Mr O'Neill.
Des O'Neill:I see.
Bertie Ahern:It is unbelievable! And I really, really don't believe . . .
Des O'Neill:Fine.
Bertie Ahern:That you or anybody else would put that together, other than really trying to set me up and stitch me up. That is just unbelievable. Unbelievable!
Conor Maguire (Ahern counsel):Chairman. I have a submission to make in relation to this.
Bertie Ahern:Before any submission. Could I just say, you know, to think, I mean, I didn't know what you were coming at.
Des O'Neill:What?
Bertie Ahern:I didn't know what you were coming at. I didn't know. But to think that you know that AIB would get into a conspiracy with me and to put such a convoluted set of circumstances.