Seán O'Rourke:Minister Willie O'Dea, good afternoon to you. You really are a one hell of a dirty fighter, aren't you?
Willie O'Dea:I say things that I don't really mean sometimes in the heat of battle and I said something wrong on this occasion. It wasn't something I concocted, it was something that was passed on to me casually . . . in conversation with a member of An Garda Síochána . . . I passed that on. It wasn't true. I assumed the journalist had heard it. He hadn't heard it, so I told him to check his sources.
“In so far as Mr Maurice Quinlivan is concerned, it turned out to be incorrect. I apologise for that. The moment I discovered it was incorrect I apologised for that. I paid a substantial sum of money by way of damages and I reiterate my apology today.
SO’R: You got 19,082 votes at the last general election, number ones, a multiple of the quota. Are you really so insecure that when somebody criticises the way you carry out your duties and the way you run your constituency office using six civil servants and using department headed paper, are you really so insecure that you have to respond in this way?
WO'D:The criticism was fairly harsh, Seán, if you look back. It was a series of criticisms that suggested almost that I was defrauding the exchequer. Every Cabinet Minister has that number of civil servants attending to general business in his office and there were also suggestions made I was misusing money. I don't misuse money; I'm one of the lowest in terms of expenses in Leinster House.
SO'R:That's accepted, but your use of Department of Defence headed notepaper to send out run of the mill constituency letters.
WO'D:That was a mistake on the part of my office. I specifically requested that those letters be sent out on Dáil headed paper as they were before and have since . . . I'm not trying to take from the mistake I made. It was a bad mistake and I paid heavily for it . . . I have apologised and I don't know what else I can do.
SO'R:What you could do is offer your resignation to the Taoiseach.
WO'D:The grounds on which I'm being asked to resign is that I committed perjury. I saw Mr Enda Kenny repeating that again this morning . . . I didn't commit perjury. This has been difficult for me. It has been very, very difficult for me and my family.
SO'R:Citing your status as an elected public representative, you categorically and emphatically denied using the words that in fact you had used. You swore those words into an affidavit on the basis of which a High Court judge refused an application to injunct you from telling untruths against this candidate in a local election. Could anything be more serious in terms of potential abuse of the democratic system?
WO'D:Other people have done affidavits and have had to correct them, Seán; I corrected mine. The fact of the matter is that I swore an affidavit to the best of my recollection of what I said. The newspaper ran the story subsequently and the newspaper's account of the story was that I referred to Mr Nessan Quinlivan, which was my recollection. I hadn't recollected referring to Mr Maurice Quinlivan as well.
“I swore that to the best of my knowledge, information and belief which is how you swear an affidavit. The moment I discovered, on July 24th, Alan English, the editor of the Limerick Leader, told me he wanted to see me. I met him. He showed me the transcript. I went from there to my solicitor’s office and told him to immediately correct the record and begin negotiations for damages.
SO'R:What people will be at a loss to understand, Minister, is how you could possibly not have recollected saying what you said.
WO'D:One of the allegations made against me was that I only said this when a tape was suddenly produced that I didn't know existed. Everybody has now confirmed, including the journalist in question, that I knew I was being taped . . . If I had recollected properly what I have said I wouldn't have sworn an affidavit to the contrary knowing the whole thing was on tape. That simply wouldn't have been a rational thing to do.
SO'R:In what context and where was the affidavit corrected?
WO'D:Technically maybe the affidavit was not corrected in the original court. It was corrected by reference to the fact we unequivocally stated to the solicitor for the other side that the affidavit was incorrect. We pointed out where it was incorrect. Sent the transcript to the other side and subsequently apologised.
SO'R:Was it not incumbent on you to apologise to the original court where you had supplied this false affidavit?
WO'D:I discussed that with my legal people and that said no, that if we could settle the case that would more or less dispose of things.
SO'R:What was the basis of you getting this information from the gardaí?
WO'D:It wasn't given to me in an official capacity. It was just general chit chat in a casual off the record conversation. I assumed the information was correct. Part of it was correct and part of it was incorrect and unfortunately I passed it all on without verifying it and that was a mistake. I did tell the journalist to check his sources and he did check his sources. The only part he published was the part that was correct.
SO'R:In the event the Garda Commissioner was to order an inquiry into the circumstances of this conversation. Would you co-operate fully and name the garda concerned.
WO'D:I was told the thing off the record in casual conversation and I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. I didn't dream it up.
SO'R:Are you refusing to say you'll co-operate with a Garda investigation?
WO'D:Of course I'd co-operate. How far I'd co-operate I don't know. I'll certainly co-operate to the best of my ability.
SO'R:Would that include naming the garda?
WO'D:Let's cross that bridge when we come to it . . . I'm not saying no.
SO'R:One thing you said that was never disputed was what you said initially, is the brothel still closed. That in itself, prima facie, was libelous.
WO'D:That's debatable . . . I had no intention of repeating it anyway as it turns out. Somebody suggested that I told my canvassers to spread it door to door, but nothing could be further from the truth.