Indonesian defence minister Juwono Sudarsono talks to CLIFFORD COONANin Jakarta
THE TEAM of armed police who search every inch of the taxi, and the airport-style security as you walk into the Grand Hyatt hotel in Jakarta, illustrate the high level of security alert that Indonesia finds itself in since last month’s hotel attacks by Islamic extremists, which killed nine people and ended four years of calm in the world’s fourth-largest country.
Indonesia is the world’s most-populous Muslim country and the majority of Muslims there follow a moderate form of Islam, but the challenge facing the administration of reformist president Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono is countering the way radical fringe elements are gaining influence, especially among the impoverished youth in the provinces.
Defence minister Juwono Sudarsono believes that the way to stop fundamentalists gaining the upper hand is to combat poverty.
“The war on poverty and the war on terror are two sides of the same coin,” Sudarsono said in an interview with The Irish Times.
Sudarsono, educated at the University of Indonesia, Berkeley, and the London School of Economics, has served under the last four Indonesia leaders.
His moderate views means he has transcended the political turmoil that has rocked Indonesia in recent years, and the professor of international relations is better-qualified than most to comment on the current state of Indonesian politics.
The son of a government minister, he was a minister of state under former dictator president Suharto in 1998.
Under president BJ Habibie, he was education minister, then became the first civilian in 50 years to become minister of defence under president Abdurrahman Wahid in 1999.
He followed this up with a stint as ambassador to Britain and Ireland under President Megawati Soekarnoputri in 2003-2004, and he speaks fondly of his three visits to Dublin. “A lively city,” he said.
He was again named minister for defence under president Yudhoyono in October 2004.
“Structurally speaking, we have to pre-empt the tendency of young Muslims who are easily attracted to radical policies. Poverty itself does not lead to terrorism, but it can be used to make the young resort to bombing,” he said.
“They have nothing to lose because they have nothing, that’s the problem.”
Sudarsono remains hopeful for the country’s future because the Indonesian economy, which is largely driven by its domestic market of 226 million people, is proving resilient despite the crisis, and is expected to grow by over 4 per cent this year.
The poverty rate fell to 14.1 per cent in March, compared to 16.7 per cent in 2004, while unemployment is also falling.
But beyond the numbers, Sudarsono describes efforts to combat terrorism in Indonesia as “a cosmic war”.
The terror campaign in the modern era began with the Bali bombings in 2002, which killed 202 people, many of them foreigners, and 300 people have died in all.
Security forces blame Malaysia-born Noordin Mohammad Top for orchestrating the campaign, heading up the violent wing of the Jemaah Islamiah network. There are also links to the al-Qaeda network.
“My problem is beyond Noordin, who is attracting downtrodden people,” he said.
Martyrdom is a big factor – if Noordin is caught, then what to do?
He would certainly be sentenced to death, which would create a martyr. A quick trial to show the government is serious about countering terrorism would be the ideal outcome, although Sudarsono said he was unlikely to survive once the police caught up with him.
Sudarsono said he believed that the current administration was serious about its concern for the poor. “The strongest point about president Yudhoyono is that he is genuinely concerned about the downtrodden. It’s up to the other officials in government who must cope with terrorist networks using a soft but firm approach. Perception is important in politics,” he said.
Much of the task of dealing with the terror issue in Indonesia has fallen to the police, who have taken on a high-profile role in the country, partially because the military needs to take a back seat due to its links to the Suharto era.
“The biggest problem is conveying to the people that this army is interested in serving the people, not like under Suharto,” he said.
Sudarsono believes history will probably judge the much-reviled Suharto, who died last year, differently, as despite his harsh rule, he also transformed Indonesia into one of the Third World’s success stories of the 1970s and 1980s.
But he has nailed his colours firmly to the current administration’s mast.
“Under Suharto, the problem was not much democracy, but lots of efficacy. Now it’s the reverse – lots of democracy but not enough efficacy. He delivered at a price – the price of democracy.”
Indonesia also faces the issue of managing calls for greater regional autonomy in its eastern and western extremes of Aceh and Papua, and Sudarsono acknowledged the difficulty of this problem, while saying he hoped that encouraging a sense of being Indonesian would help with this.
“International relations was my subject, but most important here is anthropology,” he said.
Structural problems are hampering economic growth and also made it difficult for Indonesia to compete with China and Vietnam.
“We need institutions and we need equitable economic growth to avoid a constant crashing of gears. We have top-rate people at the upper echelons but, at other levels, it’s hard to compete with places like Singapore and Thailand.
“We are undermanaged,” he said.