Committee told boys were punished for sex with other boys

Boys who had been found to be involved sexually with other boys at their industrial schools were punished "severely", the commission heard.

However, Father Joe O'Reilly told the investigation committee that he was sure that a boy abused by a member of the congregation was not punished. "I would hope not. I doubt if he was," he said.

He was sure also that "very little was done to help a boy ". He felt "it is clear a lot more should have been done", but he was "not sure whether it would've been known what more to do. It might not have been much better in society at the time."

There were no records of the extent of sexual abuse of boys by boys at the schools, but he was sure it would have been dealt with in the same way whether between boys of the same age or where there was an age difference. It was seen as a problem of "immorality, in the religious sense." It was recognised that older boys picked on younger boys and used sex to bully them.

Returning to the matter later, in response to questions from Mr David Hardiman SC, for the Rosminian congregation, Father O'Reilly agreed that references to periculum (danger) in correspondence meant "almost exclusively, a moral one".

He continued that at that time "Ireland was an extremely Catholic State after foundation in the 1920s, and wanted to shove aside all things regarded as British, Protestant and worldly. It wanted to embrace all things Catholic and freedom, which was seen in all things as Catholic.

"Reasoning in the Department (of Education) was close enough to theology with a religious sense of morals, which had an influence on our people."

He was not sure whether an understanding of the effects of child abuse on the victim would have been any different at the Department. It was only with publication of the book Slayer of the Soul by Ed Rossetti in the 1980s that people "got an insight into how someone abused was wounded right into the depths of their being," he said. He didn't think many had that understanding then, when the abuser was removed, "hoping, expecting the child would be alright."