BARR TRIBUNAL: The Emergency Response Unit negotiator at the siege in Abbeylara told the Barr tribunal yesterday that the Garda had faced a very volatile situation and there was a fear John Carthy would harm himself or others.
Det Insp Michael Jackson said that when he arrived at the siege Mr Carthy was at the house and had a shotgun. It was urgent that he made some verbal intervention. That was his primary concern.
"At that point in time the situation was quite volatile. The village was cordoned off, John had been firing shots and there was a huge sense of fear that John may emerge from the house, which would lead to a confrontation or that John would take his own life," he said.
The tribunal is investigating the circumstances of the fatal shooting of Mr Carthy at Abbeylara, Co Longford, on April 20th, 2000.
Insp Jackson was told of a non-hostage situation in Abbeylara while on diplomatic duty in Dublin on April 19th, 2000. He and his assistant negotiator, Det Garda Michael Sullivan, arrived there at 10 p.m.
He made contact with the local commander, Supt Joseph Shelly. He was told Mr Carthy was a manic-depressive which he understood meant that a person could have periods of elation or depression.
The tribunal chairman, Mr Justice Barr, asked if it would not have been advisable to determine whether Mr Carthy was elated or depressed then and that he was under a psychiatrist's care.
Insp Jackson said Supt Shelly had given him exhaustive information, and the local GP, Dr Patrick Cullen, who had seen Mr Carthy earlier, had imparted as much information as he could.
"John was firing shots, and it was a serious incident. The onus was on us to prevent loss of life and to act on the information we had," Insp Jackson said.
He was told Mr Carthy had other issues regarding breaking up with his girlfriend in Galway and losing his job. He was also made aware that Mr Carthy felt he had been wronged by the local gardaí when arrested over an incident concerning a goat mascot.
"On a scale of one to 10, 10 was the scale with which I assessed John's mistrust of the guards," he said.
A cordon was put round the house. InspJackson said he had been told that Mr Carthy had fired 12 or 13 shots prior to the gardaí arriving.
At 10.25 p.m. a gunshot was discharged from Mr Carthy's position in the house.
At this stage, Insp Jackson said he was about 70 feet from the house so he tried to move closer as verbal communication was very important. He moved to within 10 or 15 metres of Mr Carthy's position. He attempted to make phone contact. He disregarded the megaphone and spoke over the wall.