Detective tells of real sense of danger

A detective sergeant told the Barr tribunal that there was a real sense of danger for his own and his colleagues' safety at …

A detective sergeant told the Barr tribunal that there was a real sense of danger for his own and his colleagues' safety at the Abbeylara siege but he felt totally competent to deal with the situation.

Det Sgt Michael Sullivan, then with the Emergency Response Unit, was the assistant negotiator at Abbeylara, Co Longford. The tribunal is inquiring into the fatal shooting of Mr John Carthy after the 26-hour siege on April 20th, 2000.

Mr Michael O'Higgins SC, for the Carthy family, asked Sgt Sullivan about a log he took of times and events and put it to him that he did not include certain things.

Sgt Sullivan said the log was never meant to be a detailed account. The gardaí were in a frontline situation and it was difficult to understand the position they were in.

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"There was a real sense of danger for our own personal safety. We never knew when John Carthy would shoot or emerge from the house, those were difficult working conditions," he said.

He referred to another shooting incident in Dublin in which he had been involved and said he knew the reality of what it was like to be fired upon. In that incident two colleagues were shot and injured, one seriously. Mr O'Higgins asked if it would not have been more appropriate for him to say to the other officers that he was concerned for his own safety and could not take these notes.

Sgt Sullivan said: "From your remark, if you're suggesting I wasn't up to the task at Abbeylara, I would refute that. I'm a professionally trained policeman and I'm specialist trained and I felt totally competent to deal with the situation at Abbeylara."

Sgt Sullivan said he tried to record things as contemporaneously as he could.

The chairman, Mr Justice Barr, said he knew it was not a narrative. Sgt Sullivan was keeping a log with times of important events but not all of these managed to get in, including Mr Carthy's request for a solicitor.

Mr O'Higgins asked about a statement to an internal Garda inquiry in May 2000 that he "tried to negotiate" with Mr Carthy between 4 a.m. and 8 a.m. on April 20th.

Sgt Sullivan said he did not try to negotiate. He used the loud hailer to ask if he was awake if he heard a noise in the house.

Mr O'Higgins suggested that when he realised questions would be asked about leaving Mr Carthy to sleep, he identified it as a potential problem, and the solution was to back away from negotiation and say Mr Carthy was making movements as an explanation to deflect potential criticism of him and the operation.

Sgt Sullivan said: "I don't accept that."